I will say, if you actually wanted to be able to field motorcycle infantry, you'd massively subsidize production of PW50s or equivalent and the construction of trails and tracks. Especially on dirt, good riders start very young.
Very interesting take. Back when I was part of the Sheriffs SAR (Search And Rescue) group (Northern Montana) we did use various dirt bikes, but mostly used Quad runners, horses (of course) and several guys had Rokons. These are smallish, 200 lb. or so weight wise, full time front & rear drive bikes (instead of just the rear wheel). Only have a maximum speed (3rd gear) of 35 mph (56kph), but were incredibly maneuverable in the typical thick forests & woodlands we would have to search. One of the guys had welded a front frame extension for a powered winch, so were very few places he couldn’t go. Rokons can carry a lot of weight too (they even offer a ‘side car’, as well as a one wheel trailer). If allowed, here’s a link for the website for better information. https://rokon.com/
I think you over state the utility of the motorcycle, but I agree: we need more of them. Particularly if there's to be a Civil War. We will need toyotas with heavy weapons, motorcycles, 4-wheelers, etc. You can reduce your casualties by switching to sidebysides. There are some videos of them used as mobile fire platforms hunting russian boars in Texas. Grisly to see the slaughter of the animals, but their stability on rough terrain makes the slaughter possible.
You do not address logistics. How do you fuel these legions of bikers? They don't need much, relatively speaking, but the do need fuel. Also, what are the breakdown rates? Maintenance issues? Cost of operation and replacement when you're wearing them out fast?
Logistics are the sinews of war.
The toyota technicals, in your other essay, are quite useful. I've been to Africa an seen them fielded firsthand. Let me add to your repertoire: one of the weapons systems was a tractor-trailer rig, your standard cab-over type, pulling a low boy trailer. On the trailer was as 90mm AT gun. Caissons for ammo were clamped down like the gun was, it carried it's gun crew, equipment, two squads of infantry to defend the gun, and was relatively mobile. One of these low boys could mount two or three 37mm AA guns too, carrying loads of ammo. That's a helluva lot of firepower for a commonly available vehicle. The logistic of those truck are well supported all across the USA too...
If you look into history, you will find the French developed a Vespa scooter with a 75mm recoilless gun strapped to it. It was air mobile capable, carried some ammunition, and makes a very amusing sight. Recoilless guns are vastly under utilized in the West; I have never understood why.
We need more thinking like this. Motorcycles wielding drones are a terrifying thought.
You might consider rocket artillery pulled by trikes (slightly less dangerous than bikes) or on low boys or pulled by a sidebyside. Logistics are the sinews of war. We will have to replace this stuff fast and cheap when it gets clobbered. Dumb rockets can get 3000-9000m range, giving a African-model light cav element a lot of hit for little money. Also, ATGMs can be loosed from nearly any of these platforms. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on weapons best suited to these vehicle bases.
Greatly appreciate your content and thanks for referring your twitter followers back to this masterpiece. This and your thread on megacities as a military challenge are directly informing some of my own modest writing efforts.
One day I would love to see you elaborate on this analysis in a hypothetical North American WROL scenario -- although there is a lot implicit in what you have already provided here. Fuel economy of motorbikes in context of scarcity could be a decisive advantage, along with all the others you detail here.
I have 4 letters to answer your article on bikes for military use - GPMG. You've done a lot of research but ignored something important - bikers are exposed. Thus, vulnerable to automatic firearms as much as dismounted infantry. Also, vulnerable to anti-personnel mines and any other small arms out there. I just have to set up my machineguns right and your bikers will be dropping like flies. And as can be seen on one of the photos you provided, a general-purpose machinegun can easily fit on the same bike as three humans. Common weapon these days, with a reinforced barrel so it can shoot on full auto a whole lot. There are reasons why light trucks with heavy machineguns are popular among economically-disadvantaged militias as combat vehicles, and bikes not so much. Bikes are good for transport across rough terrain, for the special forces, in a scenario where literally no other vehicle is available. It's a skeleton of a two-wheeler with no protection for the rider whatsoever. In other words, no combat applications are possible for a bike. Transporting supplies in difficult terrain on a small scale sure, but the possible uses are simply too limited.
A toyota tacoma at least has an engine block and can be outfitted with steel plates to stop schrapnel and 7.62x39mm...
What are your thoughts on the new breed of tilting reverse trikes like the Niken? More weight and wider than motorcycles but also more stable (potentially allowing one handed operation). Generally more maneuverable and narrower than rigid axle ATVs. I think that they may be generally safer than traditional motorcycles given that the most common deaths/injuries come from loss of control usually in turns and leaning reverse trikes are able to load their front wheels during braking and in turns in ways that on two wheels would cause a slide or worse. I know many police departments migrated to ABS equipped bikes specifically to mitigate problems with riders locking up wheels (again leading to slides or worse). Going to a three wheel configuration may bring those risks down further. Of course they'll still have the issues of not being enclosed in a metal safety cage.
Dude, this is pretty sick.
I will say, if you actually wanted to be able to field motorcycle infantry, you'd massively subsidize production of PW50s or equivalent and the construction of trails and tracks. Especially on dirt, good riders start very young.
This is a truly phenomenal post well done
Very interesting take. Back when I was part of the Sheriffs SAR (Search And Rescue) group (Northern Montana) we did use various dirt bikes, but mostly used Quad runners, horses (of course) and several guys had Rokons. These are smallish, 200 lb. or so weight wise, full time front & rear drive bikes (instead of just the rear wheel). Only have a maximum speed (3rd gear) of 35 mph (56kph), but were incredibly maneuverable in the typical thick forests & woodlands we would have to search. One of the guys had welded a front frame extension for a powered winch, so were very few places he couldn’t go. Rokons can carry a lot of weight too (they even offer a ‘side car’, as well as a one wheel trailer). If allowed, here’s a link for the website for better information. https://rokon.com/
I had to re-read this essay a year on after my thread, and holy hell, you really knocked it out of the park.
Great post: I learned a lot about asymmetrical warfare here
You should read "Blitzkrieg" by Len Deighton. He absolutely condemns the use of motorcycles in that war, and gives a list of reasons.
ridden motorbikes a little and horses a bit more. on a bike one must spend every moment navigating; the horse generally knows where you are going.
I think you over state the utility of the motorcycle, but I agree: we need more of them. Particularly if there's to be a Civil War. We will need toyotas with heavy weapons, motorcycles, 4-wheelers, etc. You can reduce your casualties by switching to sidebysides. There are some videos of them used as mobile fire platforms hunting russian boars in Texas. Grisly to see the slaughter of the animals, but their stability on rough terrain makes the slaughter possible.
You do not address logistics. How do you fuel these legions of bikers? They don't need much, relatively speaking, but the do need fuel. Also, what are the breakdown rates? Maintenance issues? Cost of operation and replacement when you're wearing them out fast?
Logistics are the sinews of war.
The toyota technicals, in your other essay, are quite useful. I've been to Africa an seen them fielded firsthand. Let me add to your repertoire: one of the weapons systems was a tractor-trailer rig, your standard cab-over type, pulling a low boy trailer. On the trailer was as 90mm AT gun. Caissons for ammo were clamped down like the gun was, it carried it's gun crew, equipment, two squads of infantry to defend the gun, and was relatively mobile. One of these low boys could mount two or three 37mm AA guns too, carrying loads of ammo. That's a helluva lot of firepower for a commonly available vehicle. The logistic of those truck are well supported all across the USA too...
If you look into history, you will find the French developed a Vespa scooter with a 75mm recoilless gun strapped to it. It was air mobile capable, carried some ammunition, and makes a very amusing sight. Recoilless guns are vastly under utilized in the West; I have never understood why.
We need more thinking like this. Motorcycles wielding drones are a terrifying thought.
You might consider rocket artillery pulled by trikes (slightly less dangerous than bikes) or on low boys or pulled by a sidebyside. Logistics are the sinews of war. We will have to replace this stuff fast and cheap when it gets clobbered. Dumb rockets can get 3000-9000m range, giving a African-model light cav element a lot of hit for little money. Also, ATGMs can be loosed from nearly any of these platforms. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on weapons best suited to these vehicle bases.
what about weaponized emf
https://youtu.be/kyLIl6Ji96U
I Bought a Diesel Dirtbike from the Marine Corps(1 of 214)
Bikes and Beards
1.87M subscribers
Really curious as to how you feel this article has dated in light of what's been happening in the Ukraine War?
Great post. Noticed it says waste deep instead of waist deep, but it's an interesting image to ford a river of waste.
Greatly appreciate your content and thanks for referring your twitter followers back to this masterpiece. This and your thread on megacities as a military challenge are directly informing some of my own modest writing efforts.
One day I would love to see you elaborate on this analysis in a hypothetical North American WROL scenario -- although there is a lot implicit in what you have already provided here. Fuel economy of motorbikes in context of scarcity could be a decisive advantage, along with all the others you detail here.
I have 4 letters to answer your article on bikes for military use - GPMG. You've done a lot of research but ignored something important - bikers are exposed. Thus, vulnerable to automatic firearms as much as dismounted infantry. Also, vulnerable to anti-personnel mines and any other small arms out there. I just have to set up my machineguns right and your bikers will be dropping like flies. And as can be seen on one of the photos you provided, a general-purpose machinegun can easily fit on the same bike as three humans. Common weapon these days, with a reinforced barrel so it can shoot on full auto a whole lot. There are reasons why light trucks with heavy machineguns are popular among economically-disadvantaged militias as combat vehicles, and bikes not so much. Bikes are good for transport across rough terrain, for the special forces, in a scenario where literally no other vehicle is available. It's a skeleton of a two-wheeler with no protection for the rider whatsoever. In other words, no combat applications are possible for a bike. Transporting supplies in difficult terrain on a small scale sure, but the possible uses are simply too limited.
A toyota tacoma at least has an engine block and can be outfitted with steel plates to stop schrapnel and 7.62x39mm...
Bravo
What are your thoughts on the new breed of tilting reverse trikes like the Niken? More weight and wider than motorcycles but also more stable (potentially allowing one handed operation). Generally more maneuverable and narrower than rigid axle ATVs. I think that they may be generally safer than traditional motorcycles given that the most common deaths/injuries come from loss of control usually in turns and leaning reverse trikes are able to load their front wheels during braking and in turns in ways that on two wheels would cause a slide or worse. I know many police departments migrated to ABS equipped bikes specifically to mitigate problems with riders locking up wheels (again leading to slides or worse). Going to a three wheel configuration may bring those risks down further. Of course they'll still have the issues of not being enclosed in a metal safety cage.